Our esteemed host is likely not to have endured the elementary school “Open Area” “learning” environment that many of us were subjected to in the very early 1970s. In fourth grade, or grade four as we say in Canada, I spent the entire school year in one of those supermarket-sized spaces in which there were no walls, and each teacher’s so-called “station” was delineated by book shelves and rolling blackboards. I did not exactly thrive, but the group of four desks I sat at was actually just outside the teacher’s defined station space, so not within her field of view for the most part. I spent most classes reading the World Book encyclopedia rather than completing schoolwork.
My experience in the gifted program started in 6th grade 1962. Academics simply skipped us a grade ahead but also gave us the districts best teachers. Our cohort moved through the system year after year isolated from the rest of the student body. Not good for our social development
I was promoted from 3d grade to 5th grade. I know whereof you speak. Also, I CLEP’d my first year of college and graduated at age 19 (but only a month away from 20). There are definite advantages to staying with one’s age cohort, particularly for men. When you are 15 and can't drive a car, and all the girls you know are 16 … well, I'm sure you get the drift.
Ms. Arnold-Ratliff needs to be conscripted. My whole HS life I was told that I was really smart, then when I went to college, I found out, as you point out, that I wasn't so special after all. After a couple years I decided I hated college, which I found meaningless, and in 1980, I enlisted in the Navy. I am here to tell you, there is nothing like going from drinking beer in the student union to military recruit training to thoroughly learn the meaning of equality. Back in the days when conscription was common, armies were often called "the school of the nation" for good reason. I'm not saying we should go back to military conscription now, yet I think some kind of meaningful service where people are thrown together with others they don't know and who have very different backgrounds and with whom they have to live and work daily as part of an organization that is bigger (a lot bigger) than any individual would fix a lot of the elitist mindset.
No parent has any idea who the child is who is seated next to their own child at school -- what psychiatric medicine has been prescribed, for what condition(s).
No parent has any idea the sexual or religious or political obsessions of the school's teachers, administrators, aides, coaches, volunteers, visitors, etc.
Greetings from a fellow Georgian, although a former one. I went to Catholic schools in ATL grades 1-12.
In HS, the school separated each class into two halves, one getting a more advanced course in whatever the subject. I'm not sure how they populated these halves, but I'm thinking they must have done some sort of intelligence testing. Maybe it was IQ? If so, they did not tell us our scores.
Anyway, those of us in the more advanced courses called the two sections the "smart" one and the "dumb" one. However we didn't actually feel superior, or look down upon our "less-gifted" classmates. There were no social distinctions between the two groups. We just liked to razz them, being high-schoolers. Insulting each other was part of how we bonded.
A much, much bigger problem for high-IQ people than thinking that no one is as smart as they are is projecting their own mentality onto everyone else, not realizing just how stupid nearly everyone really is.
The difference between an adult and a ten year old is equivalent to 30 adult IQ points. Professors these days are only about 115 IQ average, and were never as high as 130IQ, at Cambridge in the 1950s, they were about 122 IQ. Janitors are around 92 average IQ. For someone with an IQ in the mid-150s, top one in a few thousand, it's at least five-to-one odds that the gap between themselves and any given professor is bigger than between average professor and average janitor, or any adult and the same person at age ten. To understand the mental level of 85-115IQ adults (over two-thirds of the population), the 155IQ person needs to remember their own level of thinking from ages 5.5 to 7.9.
Regardless of IQ, people aren't good at remembering how dumb they were at age five or six - the average five year old would score literally around zero on an adult IQ test. Nor does anyone grasp just how big the differences in intelligence are between age five and six, let alone the gap between bottom 1 in 44 (70IQ) five year olds and top 1 in 44 (130IQ) six year olds -- who may well be in the same class -- it's a bigger gap than between the average kindergartener and their teacher.
The differences are still huge for near-average schools and older130 IQ children. For a "good" majority non-Asian minority school, the average will be around the 30th percentile (15th percentile for an average such school). The 130 IQ nine year old will get the same raw scores on tests as the graduating eighteen year-old students. For a 50th percentile school, ten years old, for a 15th percentile school, age eight. Even an 80th percentile school, which is pretty good for even a private school, will be five years behind what a 98th percentile, 130 IQ student can do.
Midwit egalitarians pushing to hold back the smart and advance the stupid are profoundly wicked people, child abusers, it would be wrong not to let them have it with both barrels in refuting their imbecilic arguments.
*
Converting IQs or percentiles at different ages to an absolute measure of intalligence; IQ ranges of professions:
Your dates are off on when Talented and Gifted programs began. They existed well before the 1970s, they just had a different name. I was born in 1954. In grade school we were divided into four reading groups according to how well we read. In junior high (grades 7-9) we had honors groups. The top students were put into the honors classes. In my school, they ended the honors classes in 1972 in favor of college prep classes than anyone could take.
Our esteemed host is likely not to have endured the elementary school “Open Area” “learning” environment that many of us were subjected to in the very early 1970s. In fourth grade, or grade four as we say in Canada, I spent the entire school year in one of those supermarket-sized spaces in which there were no walls, and each teacher’s so-called “station” was delineated by book shelves and rolling blackboards. I did not exactly thrive, but the group of four desks I sat at was actually just outside the teacher’s defined station space, so not within her field of view for the most part. I spent most classes reading the World Book encyclopedia rather than completing schoolwork.
Well done I say, as a graduate of a kindergarten that was literally named, "Mrs. ______'s Kindergarten for Advanced Children."
My experience in the gifted program started in 6th grade 1962. Academics simply skipped us a grade ahead but also gave us the districts best teachers. Our cohort moved through the system year after year isolated from the rest of the student body. Not good for our social development
I was promoted from 3d grade to 5th grade. I know whereof you speak. Also, I CLEP’d my first year of college and graduated at age 19 (but only a month away from 20). There are definite advantages to staying with one’s age cohort, particularly for men. When you are 15 and can't drive a car, and all the girls you know are 16 … well, I'm sure you get the drift.
That's why I "red shirted" both my boys...
Ms. Arnold-Ratliff needs to be conscripted. My whole HS life I was told that I was really smart, then when I went to college, I found out, as you point out, that I wasn't so special after all. After a couple years I decided I hated college, which I found meaningless, and in 1980, I enlisted in the Navy. I am here to tell you, there is nothing like going from drinking beer in the student union to military recruit training to thoroughly learn the meaning of equality. Back in the days when conscription was common, armies were often called "the school of the nation" for good reason. I'm not saying we should go back to military conscription now, yet I think some kind of meaningful service where people are thrown together with others they don't know and who have very different backgrounds and with whom they have to live and work daily as part of an organization that is bigger (a lot bigger) than any individual would fix a lot of the elitist mindset.
"military recruit training to thoroughly learn the meaning of equality."
---------
"you are all equally worthless"
"Well the world needs ditch diggers too" ~ Judge Elihu Smails
No parent has any idea who the child is who is seated next to their own child at school -- what psychiatric medicine has been prescribed, for what condition(s).
No parent has any idea the sexual or religious or political obsessions of the school's teachers, administrators, aides, coaches, volunteers, visitors, etc.
Good luck.
Greetings from a fellow Georgian, although a former one. I went to Catholic schools in ATL grades 1-12.
In HS, the school separated each class into two halves, one getting a more advanced course in whatever the subject. I'm not sure how they populated these halves, but I'm thinking they must have done some sort of intelligence testing. Maybe it was IQ? If so, they did not tell us our scores.
Anyway, those of us in the more advanced courses called the two sections the "smart" one and the "dumb" one. However we didn't actually feel superior, or look down upon our "less-gifted" classmates. There were no social distinctions between the two groups. We just liked to razz them, being high-schoolers. Insulting each other was part of how we bonded.
A much, much bigger problem for high-IQ people than thinking that no one is as smart as they are is projecting their own mentality onto everyone else, not realizing just how stupid nearly everyone really is.
The difference between an adult and a ten year old is equivalent to 30 adult IQ points. Professors these days are only about 115 IQ average, and were never as high as 130IQ, at Cambridge in the 1950s, they were about 122 IQ. Janitors are around 92 average IQ. For someone with an IQ in the mid-150s, top one in a few thousand, it's at least five-to-one odds that the gap between themselves and any given professor is bigger than between average professor and average janitor, or any adult and the same person at age ten. To understand the mental level of 85-115IQ adults (over two-thirds of the population), the 155IQ person needs to remember their own level of thinking from ages 5.5 to 7.9.
Regardless of IQ, people aren't good at remembering how dumb they were at age five or six - the average five year old would score literally around zero on an adult IQ test. Nor does anyone grasp just how big the differences in intelligence are between age five and six, let alone the gap between bottom 1 in 44 (70IQ) five year olds and top 1 in 44 (130IQ) six year olds -- who may well be in the same class -- it's a bigger gap than between the average kindergartener and their teacher.
The differences are still huge for near-average schools and older130 IQ children. For a "good" majority non-Asian minority school, the average will be around the 30th percentile (15th percentile for an average such school). The 130 IQ nine year old will get the same raw scores on tests as the graduating eighteen year-old students. For a 50th percentile school, ten years old, for a 15th percentile school, age eight. Even an 80th percentile school, which is pretty good for even a private school, will be five years behind what a 98th percentile, 130 IQ student can do.
Midwit egalitarians pushing to hold back the smart and advance the stupid are profoundly wicked people, child abusers, it would be wrong not to let them have it with both barrels in refuting their imbecilic arguments.
*
Converting IQs or percentiles at different ages to an absolute measure of intalligence; IQ ranges of professions:
https://substack.com/@enonh/p-149185059
Grade skip tables by student percentiles for different school or class average percentiles:
https://enonh.substack.com/p/skipping-grades-and-other-gifted
Speaking of children how's your buddy Ali Alexander?
Your dates are off on when Talented and Gifted programs began. They existed well before the 1970s, they just had a different name. I was born in 1954. In grade school we were divided into four reading groups according to how well we read. In junior high (grades 7-9) we had honors groups. The top students were put into the honors classes. In my school, they ended the honors classes in 1972 in favor of college prep classes than anyone could take.